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Noeland
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: The good, the bad, the skin jobs . . . Reply with quote

I figured I'd open a discussion of the morals involved in the film. I view this as a very subtle film in terms of right and wrong. Very much like Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven, we have a film here that really lives and breaths subtle characterizations. It's underplayed.

In some ways, as has been said before by many, Deckard could be seen as the villian, and Batty the tragic hero trying to save his friends, and his race of beings, from a pre-progammed death. I believe even Rutger Hauer has mentioned in interviews that really how he played Batty, as the doomed hero. I love that notion as much as I love the flip side.

That Rick Deckard is the hesitant hero trying to keep earth safe from dangerous super human replicants.

Having seen the narrated verison first, I'm an old school fan from before the DC came out! My impressions of the film are influenced by seeing Bryant as a biggot, thinking of the term "skin job" as negative slang terms, thinking of the language as "cityspeak" and believing that Deckard had " a belly full of killing".

For anyone who may have seen the DC first, the film doesn't contain those aspects for them. My girlfriend for instance, saw the DC first and never really understood some of what was going on until I popped in the VHS and she got to hear Deckard's thoughts.

I really do love both versions of the film too. Each has it's pros and cons, and each gives you a pretty clear portrait of the characters. They are all on a moral journey of some kind, with maybe the exception of Bryant, but even Gaff gets a little bit of a journey to go on, he's just doing it in the shadows, stalking Deckard through the whole film. Or, atleast I like to think that he is Smile
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amish
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: The good, the bad, the skin jobs . . . Reply with quote

Noeland wrote:


In some ways, as has been said before by many, Deckard could be seen as the villian, and Batty the tragic hero trying to save his friends, and his race of beings, from a pre-progammed death. I believe even Rutger Hauer has mentioned in interviews that really how he played Batty, as the doomed hero. I love that notion as much as I love the flip side.



Wow, never really thought of it like that. It does make sense and I guess it is put that way in the film that the replicants are just tryin to live (keep on keeping on). However, the film portrays them so murderously that you lose sight of why they are doing these things.

Kill or be killed.
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it always seemed to me that when we meet the Replicants they are mid journey, they have already broken free of being slaves, probably mistreated and abused slaves, and they have come to earth to find answers.

I think if Tyrell had said "Yes Roy, we can give you more life, trust me" he would not have killed Elden. The replicants certainly do kill a few people needlessly in my view, but the other aspect that I have always thought was interesting is that Roy is nearing the end of his life cycle and his systems may not be functioning well anymore. I wonder if his brain patterns have changed or are breaking down, making him psychotic, when previously he may not have been. Previously he may just have been questioning things through anger.

He was trained and designed to be a killer, and that's how he expresses himself to a certain degree. His point of view is bound to be skewed, and "uncivilized". He's an emotionally broken, ultra intellegent 4 year old super soldier.

One of the themes I was desperate to explore in our fan film is a manufactured identity, and what happens when a programmed android with a created identity breaks free of those bounds, and becomes aware that he or she has only weeks or months to live. Do they decide they are not what they were made, or that they do not want to be what they were built and programmed to be, or do they accept that programmed identity as who they are?

The other theme is an after life, and God, and do the replicants have any sort of soul. Are replicants anything more than a programmed sack of synthetic organs? Can mankind instill a soul into something it creates outside of the womb?



See, you take these questions and put em in a flick with some flying cars, I'm all over it!!
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jhyphen
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big fan of the original narrated theatrical version myself. Had that Chandleresque vibe....

And I always looked at Batty as a very human character, if that makes sense. His "tears in rain" speech after rescuing Deckard is a sublime moment in what can sometimes be a boring, even tedious movie.

Overall, it is a well-deserved cult classic.
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes sense to me. Batty is chasing after what we all want really. "I want more life . . ."

You can't fault him for that.

You can fault him for KILLING to try and get it, but no one is perfect right?
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Birdie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I never did understand was why Batty killed Sebastian. That kind of detracts from Batty's humanity, for me.

While I'm asking stupid questions, presumably Batty killed Chew? How come Deckard never investigated that one, huh?
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amish
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Birdie wrote:
One thing I never did understand was why Batty killed Sebastian. That kind of detracts from Batty's humanity, for me.

While I'm asking stupid questions, presumably Batty killed Chew? How come Deckard never investigated that one, huh?


You are going to force me to watch the movie again!!! I am a little fuzzy on what happens after they visit Chew. Does it show him dying? I honestly cannot remember. I presume he died though.
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always assumed Chew was kind of a recluse, so nobody knew he was dead. Of coarse, if I am not mistaken Chew was alive in the video game, so perhaps they didn't kill him after all.
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andy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember correctly there was a bulletin announcing chew's body being found. The game supposedly happened concurrently with the movie so basicly you get to chew before Batty does.
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amish
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noeland wrote:
I always assumed Chew was kind of a recluse, so nobody knew he was dead. Of coarse, if I am not mistaken Chew was alive in the video game, so perhaps they didn't kill him after all.


I would imagine someone from Tyrell would come looking. I assume he was the only eye guy, though I could be wrong.
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andy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chew tried to call someone on the wired microphone on his suit whren they showed up...I also think a receptionist told him he had visitors and he told them he was too busy to see them if I remember correctly. there was definitly other people there who may have called the police for him.
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't aware the game was running concurrently with the movie, I thought certain events happened before the film, and certain events happened after the film. My bad Smile
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noeland wrote:
I wasn't aware the game was running concurrently with the movie, I thought certain events happened before the film, and certain events happened after the film. My bad Smile


That may be true, but if part of it was before and part of it was after, than atleast a part of it was concurrent as well Very Happy...sorry I may be smart ass at times
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amish
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often thought about picking the game up, but hear so many different stories about how it works and doesnt on XP. Do you have any advice for the best place to get it and how to run it on XP? I have seen the forums at Bladezone so I am fairly confident, but just wanted to get an inside opinion

Tom
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last time I played it was on my old computer running win98...I haven't tried to install it on this computer yet. Blade zone does have a lot of information on how to get it to work though. It is a fun game and filled my BR jones for quite some time. It reminded me of the Game I worked on for Vicarious Visions called Synnergist. It was their first game they made in high school and based on the imagery of BR for sure. There is actually some pics of some of my artwork still up on their site. It also had eliments of martian memorandum and mean streets(that most famously had a BR rip off cover art). I used to call the BR game(and tv show total recall 2025) BR methadone.
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amish
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andy!! I am going to try and get a copy and give it a go. I also got into bladezone so I am sure I will be able to get the proper help if I need any.
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Birdie
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember buying a Windows emulator to run on my Imac, just to play that game!

Haven't tried it on XP either, might give it a go.

Back on topic, Deckard gets a bulletin about Sebastian's death, don't remember one for Chew.

Here's another one: why doesn't Holden regonise Leon (or his name) from his file?
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran it on XP and had loads of problems including not being able to use the shooting gallery, and having real problems with being able to advance to further levels. There were certain sections of the city that were empty of characters, that was wierd.

I ended up downloading the ending of the game from bladezone just so I could watch them, because after a certain amoutn of time I gave up trying to advance in the game, it just wouldn't let me.

But it is a cool game, and it's fun to run around in that world. No doubt about it.
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MsGeek
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...maybe it would be worth setting up a Windows 98 virtual drive in Parallels to run the game on my MacBook.

It's weird, I had a computer capable of running the game back in the day but I never managed to get it when it was out. Is it something obtainable via eBay?

The most important thing about what I know now about the game: there is a female Rep-Detect Detective in it. Cool. Cosplay time. I like the fact she wears shades all the time...it is frustrating having to take off my glasses when I troop with my SW costumer friends. I've got to get the game now, or at least download the cutscenes.
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amish
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the cutscenes are readily available, but I still have to try and get the game. Maybe with the upcoming release of the dvd and such we will see a game......
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