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Starrigger
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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May have to rethink light placement...
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Last edited by Starrigger on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cold Canuck
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad they didn't use that christmas tree approach to the lights...I mean, it IS supposed to be a tug, right? :-}
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Vader
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Cold Canuck wrote: | | Quote: | | Are we cherry-picking here, just a bit? |
I thought we were having a discussion, but if you feel that I am nit-picking, dragging things out or even being deliberately obtuse, just say the word. |
A discussion, indeed. Cherry-picking is not the same as nitpicking.
I felt you ignored the last sentence in the paragraph, which pre-empted the specific point you wanted to make (picked the cherries from the cake); presumably in order to be able to make the point anyway.
But perhaps I was mistaken? In that case I apologise, of course.
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Starrigger
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Vader wrote: | Regarding the non-existing elevator, there's actually a meta-argument in favour of it, too:
From a film-making perspective, it is a lot easier to have an elevator than to not have one. The sets are infinitely simpler (three walls and a door, vs. a ladder, which needs to be in at least two, possibly three, different levels), and the actual screenplay also gets simpler to write, and to shoot. Any Star Trek screenwriter can testify what an enormous blessing having those turbolifts were — somewhere to place dialogue and illustrate movement between sets without needing to resort to dollies, Stedicams or any other paraphernalia.
If the production of ALIEN went through the substantial hassle of writing, building, and shooting all the Nostromo interior scenes without an elevator, it is a fair safe bet that they didn't envision Nostromo having an elevator. |
Ok.. I'll bite.. SRS is an artist above all else, the shear drama of scampering up and down stairs is worth it's wait in gold, or trouble. Making sets more difficult to build? Not sure about that... Change the camera angle.. and poof! New floor.
Just look at how the set was actually built, One floor plan became an awesome array of locations.
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Vader
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Starrigger wrote: | Making sets more difficult to build? Not sure about that... Change the camera angle.. and poof! New floor.
Just look at how the set was actually built, One floor plan became an awesome array of locations. |
Well ... almost. You still needed to have somewhere to climb up or down from, and/or climb to. A bit more structural requirement than simple walls.
And then there's my main argument against elevators (beside us never seeing any): the Nostromo takes much of its inspiration from real-world blue-collar environments, like oceangoing commercial vessels.
How many of those, even the ridiculously large ones, have even proper stairs, let alone any elevators, cargo or otherwise? Companionways tend to be all you get.
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Vader
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Starrigger wrote: | May have to rethink light placement...
[img]http://www.papirove-modely.cz/galerie/full-image.php?showfoto=249272[/img] |
Brilliant image — exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks!
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Starrigger
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Vader wrote: | | Starrigger wrote: | May have to rethink light placement...
[img]http://www.papirove-modely.cz/galerie/full-image.php?showfoto=249272[/img] |
Brilliant image — exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks! |
Not sure I can fully get behind the placement of the lights, this would mean that they are hanging off the aux engines... unfortunately, no place to have them fold into...
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joberg
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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If we are to compare a real life ship with the Nostromo, then there should be no elevators inside the ship (aircraft carriers have elevator to move plane on the main deck or supply/planes from port-side.
Ladders, gang-ways are the way to go. Fast movement of crews are a must: alert/drills/evac, etc...
It's not just because it looks good to see the crew coming down/up ladders, it's just protocol  |
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Starrigger
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Vader wrote: | | Starrigger wrote: | Making sets more difficult to build? Not sure about that... Change the camera angle.. and poof! New floor.
Just look at how the set was actually built, One floor plan became an awesome array of locations. |
Well ... almost. You still needed to have somewhere to climb up or down from, and/or climb to. A bit more structural requirement than simple walls. |
Ahh the magic of editing. remember the floor of the set was actually the floor of the sound stage - no real way to go down, and you only need to film a person starting to ascend or descend before you cut to the person finishing his assent or descent, no need to construct multiple floors. That's the reason you see those boxes around the stairwells on the floor.
Before ladder installed:
After:
From the looks of it I think Harry Stanton is actually standing on the floor in the ladder way with his right foot on a rung.
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Cold Canuck
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, when did Martin Bower's web site go offline?
Has he switched to another domain or something?
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Starrigger
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Cold Canuck
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing that, eh.
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Vader
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Starrigger wrote: | | Ahh the magic of editing. remember the floor of the set was actually the floor of the sound stage - no real way to go down, and you only need to film a person starting to ascend or descend before you cut to the person finishing his assent or descent, no need to construct multiple floors. That's the reason you see those boxes around the stairwells on the floor. |
Makes sense — but then I'm thinking about the scenes towards the very end of the movie, when Ripley comes up the last ladder to the corridors leading to the shuttle. Unless Sigourney Weaver is a true contortionist, able to fold herself into that box and still look like she's actually climbing a ladder coming up from it, there must have been at least one "real" ladder in that set!
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Starrigger
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Vader wrote: | | Starrigger wrote: | | Ahh the magic of editing. remember the floor of the set was actually the floor of the sound stage - no real way to go down, and you only need to film a person starting to ascend or descend before you cut to the person finishing his assent or descent, no need to construct multiple floors. That's the reason you see those boxes around the stairwells on the floor. |
Makes sense — but then I'm thinking about the scenes towards the very end of the movie, when Ripley comes up the last ladder to the corridors leading to the shuttle. Unless Sigourney Weaver is a true contortionist, able to fold herself into that box and still look like she's actually climbing a ladder coming up from it, there must have been at least one "real" ladder in that set! |
I'd have to review the scene to answer intelligently on that, but depending on the angle of the shot, most likely this shot was made after the principle footage was completed and part of the set was raised on a platform. wouldn't have needed to be a complete floor either.
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FenGiddel
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Nice inputs, all!  |
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Vader
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Starrigger wrote: |
I'd have to review the scene to answer intelligently on that, but depending on the angle of the shot, most likely this shot was made after the principle footage was completed and part of the set was raised on a platform. wouldn't have needed to be a complete floor either. |
Quite possible — but even so, a lot more hassle than shooting her coming out of an elevator, surely you will agree?
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Starrigger
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Vader wrote: | | Starrigger wrote: |
I'd have to review the scene to answer intelligently on that, but depending on the angle of the shot, most likely this shot was made after the principle footage was completed and part of the set was raised on a platform. wouldn't have needed to be a complete floor either. |
Quite possible — but even so, a lot more hassle than shooting her coming out of an elevator, surely you will agree? |
I actually did some thinking about that. With something like Star Trek I would wholeheartedly agree with you, everything looks the same, but with this, every area had a different look and feel, it would require building multiple doors and boxes, it would limit the angles of shots, etc.
I also agree with the apparent consensus, that this is a working vessel not a luxury liner and that had a big influence on the design choices made.
I keep thinking in particular, about the scene where they cut the knuckle of the face hugger, and go chasing the acid down the floors of the ship, I can't imagine this being done with elevators and still have the same frantic feel to it. It would almost seem comical with them jabbing at buttons trying to get the elevator to come faster... 
All this being said, yes doors and boxes could be cheaper and easier to build, but I don't think that is what SRS really cared about when he put this thing together. He was after the feel, did it feel right?
I do still contend that there had to be at least one freight elevator.
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Vader
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Back when I was in upper secondary school, I worked at this cement factory a couple of summers. At one point, I had the responsibility to lubricate it. Literally, keep the entire factory lubricated, from the rock crusher at the limestone quarry at one end, to the packaging and train car and lorry loading docks at the other — and every single conveyor, gear box, and bearing in between.
A lot of stairs. Endless deserted corridors an culverts. (ALIENS had recently come out, so I had a blast!)
Elevators? Not so much.
The few places where you actually needed one to regularly cart heavy items between levels, there you had one, but that's it. If something really heavy broke somewhere high up, you got a crane there.
The thing with a freight elevator is that it's there for freight. What freight do you have on board the Nostromo that you need to shift between decks so often that it would warrant the expense?
For the occasional need, winching through the gear wells should be fully adequate.
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joberg
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Freight elevator(s)...yes, with the amount of equipment they have on board, one could easily imagine, somewhere, such elevator.
As for the crew to use it to go up and down inside the ship? Unlikely. |
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