Original film gun in display case

[phase pistol]

I see!

[propsjonnyb]

Andy is right, but not for the reasons he stated, if you are trying to make a firing version , like Doc, Craig and myself, you do have to bob the ejector arm ( of the 'donor' gun or CA Bulldog) to allow the cylinder drum to close, this is one of the most tricky tasks to do, as if it's not done or executed precisely, the gun will not work and you might as well throw it away, the spring on the ejector rod mechanism normally locks into the catch release on the Bulldog , that holds it closed until you move the catch to release the drum , however he is right, in that the Weaver slotted screw holds the right hand shroud onto the gun frame as it's screw is just long enough , the scope screw is just not long enough, if you examine Karl photos, you can actually see this, also notice the marks on the inner shroud cover, where the gunsmith has had to grid the inside, to allow the cylinder to revolve freely. This has to be repeated on the other side, otherwise the trigger return mechanism will not be able to advance the cylinder drum to align the chamber with the barrel in order to allow the gun to fire, it is also why the fit of the drum on the cylinder swing arm arm has to be a very precise fit . For the hobbyist building his replica , he doesn't have to be as accurate and precise with this, as no Coyle or Sidkit replica has a true working trigger/hammer cylinder mechanism, so therefore the fit doesn't have to be that good. Which is also why if you load real .44 inert shells into the cylinder drum on a Coyle or a Sidkit, without adjusting the tollerances the drum sticks probably will not revolve and/or the cylinder will not swing out .

[andy]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I guess I wasn't completely clear in what I was conveying. The one on the hero is the weaver scope knob and is very short, and probably wider gauge. The scope mount screw, or slotted screw I was talking about that comes with the Steyr scope mount, according to ones I have seen on the guns would be just long enough. Close to an inch. The weaver knob as you said is just holding the plate on at this point. The allen head screw that normally does this is missing just in front of it. That is why the holes aren't perfectly aligned in the photos.

Here is the screw I am talking about that I think was the original screw...


As you can see from the "Second Hero" photos too, the ejector rod/pin was cut down too short to hold the front part of the cylinder in place, and is missing the collar. The other side is just a small rounded tip that is spring loaded and will slide in when closing the cylinder. Not enough to strength to actually hold the cylinder by itself when shooting. The collar on the front part is what does the hard work, but it is missing and has now has no way to be attached the way it has been cut off. There is not enough on this model to make it a functional working prop. Unless it was a throw away mistake 1st try.

Exploded veiw to hopefully help with those who aren't sure of what I am talking about...

The rest of what you said had nothing to do with what I was talking about, but otherwise it is accurate.

Andy

[phase pistol]

Is it possible that the scope screw was deliberately replaced by the Weaver knob on the hero, in order to "safe" the gun and render it a non-functional firearm?

k

[Helder22]

Andy, I have the screws from the Steyr scope mount. It is pretty short, .382 overall and the threaded part is only about .224.
I dont think thats long enough

[rocket boy]

Hi all

I have just got back from a holiday and was amazed to log in and see everything that has been said about the pictures I posted! Thank you for your appreciation, I am glad that you have enjoyed the pics!

You guys are amazing, I cannot believe how much you all seem to know and how you can analize everything down the smallest detail. A shame it looks like it's a fake! I don't really understand most of what you are talking and I haven't read everything that's been posted but if you want me to ask a question or two I could try and see if my buddy would ask them when/if he gets another opportunity.

I get the feeling it would be good to ask about the right side of the gun looking "rough" and the green lights.

However, I have to be real careful because both the owner & my friend have NO IDEA that I have posted the pics on your website. I was just a bit of a Bladerunner fan (but nothing like you guys!) and when he saw the gun thought I would like to see a couple of photos! I wouldnt really want them to find out, so I need to be a little careful and not come back with 100 different questions!

[propsjonnyb]

Andy, you are indeed correct, when you refer to the Weaver Slotted screw in the photo you posted , it is indeed the right one to have fitted if you want the shroud to be secure when firing , the other info was provided to enable those who want a free revolving drum or who were/are attempting to add a working CA Bulldog or a PFC firing replica , we know from the first few Coyle versions , that Rich didn't know to bob the ejector rod - as you had to remove the whole ammo box to get access to the rod in order to open the clyinder , all I was trying to do was provide useful information in a manner most would understand , when you're talking about a working gun mechnism, you do need to be a good engineer or a gunsmith and know what you are doing otherwise you run the risk of damaging the gun or yourself , working firing conversions should only be carried out by professional qualified gunsmiths so most of my remarks were addressed to the better hobbyists.

[Helder22]

I thought Andy was saying that the Steyr scope mount screw (or slotted screw) was long enough? But like I mentioned in my previous post, it is short. How long is the Weaver knob thread? (who has an original they can measure?)

Helder

(edit) So just so I understand, whichever the correct screw, is its function just to hold the cover in place or is it also responsible for holding the crane from swinging open during firing?

[phase pistol]

HI Rocket Boy,

Well once again thanks for posting the pictures! I want to echo everyone else and say that it's been fun to see this amazing piece, regardless of what its pedigree turns out to be!

I'll leave the technical questions to the others here who are more knowledgeable than I... my only request is that if you have any additional photos (particularly straight-on views, rear view of the grip, and so on) please post them! Also I'm curious as to whether you might have photographed the Apartment Card prop.

Karl

[propsjonnyb]

Also , I do remember Rich and Phil S discussing this some years ago and I quote from their discussion regarding the hero prop:-

'when Phil and I interviewed the prop master (one of them..) He said “They had the rod uncut and that to reload it you removed the ammo housing.
And as we only have the stunt gun to go by, that why the two little holes on the side worked (with a tooth pick) to operate the LED switch. '

This is clearly not realistic enough or acceptable for us purists who would like to think of the BR Blaster as a real 'functional weapon' , so with artistic license firmly in place - the ejector rod was ' bobed' (shortened) to allow it to hide behind the shroud cover and to allow the rear cylinder catch to act as the main release for the cylinder drum to allow you to empty the chamber and reload , as we all know the arm does not deploy far enough to allow a normal speedloader to load all five chamber at once, as the grips get in the way, so only a 'strip speed' loader could be used on the gun or it's loaded by hand , a chamber at a time.

[andy]

[Helder22]

Sorry, yes I meant inches. heres a pic of the screws. One of them is facing the camera and the other I placed on the mount bottom in the approximate position where it would be normally be screwed into. As you can see there is no way it can be much longer. without hitting the screw on the other side. Its only really meant to roughly adjust windage in the mount while at the same time holding the top half of the mount. It does not go through the mount. I dont think they made any other variations of this mount with a longer screw either

[phase pistol]

Brited that up 4 U.

[andy]

Yep, Too short for sure, The mount I saw was different though. Is the ring on your mount just removed from the base, or is it attached in front? The slot in the crew looks a bit wider too.

Andy

[Helder22]

not sure exactly what you mean. in the picture it is just sitting on top of the table. The mount is exactly like the one pictured in your post above (when assembled).

heres a pic from before it was taken apart

[propsjonnyb]

The screw only needs to be long enough to secure the shroud to the gun frame and the ones shown in the pictures , the flat head slotted mounting screws are the right ones, the 'Scope' screw with the zero on it, is the shorter screw which, as Andy suggest was added to the 'hero' after filming ( I agree with him) as we only see the slotted throughout the film.

[andy]

Actually, I was saying it has to secure the crane as well. The screw in front of the shroud/side cover would also secure it, but we need something to secure the entire cylinder assembly so it doesn't blow open when firing. The slotted screw is in perfect position to do so. It would just have to be longer than the one shown with the Steyr scope mount. It only needs to be a little more than a half an inch. But, still bigger than both the weaver knob and this mount screw. Back to the drawing board.

Andy

[propsjonnyb]

Andy the screw only needs to be long enough to engage throgh the shroud and lock into the tapped thread of the gun frame to lock it into position on the right hand side, the shrould on the lhs is bolted into the ejector rod arm and is held in position by the spring lock mechanism of the ejector catch locking into the back plate on the gun frame and certainly for PFC 'donor' guns this is sufficent to stop the shrouds from moving when the gun is fired or the cylinder drum from accidentally opening . I have used the weaver slotted screws now on most of my PFC firing replicas.

[andy]

That is fine about the spring lock mechanism keeping it from opening accidentally, but I am talking about someything firing explosive blank rounds.

Read some of these threads for an idea of what I am talking about...
http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1206&highlight=doc3d
http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1226&start=0
http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1222&start=0

Andy

[propsjonnyb]

Andy that's exactly what I was saying when I referred to 'bobbing' the ejector rod, Doc's articles explain the detail for real firing guns but the principals the same for locking the cylinder drum into the gun frame for firing PFC donor guns like the S&W .38 and his solution mirrors mine almost identically. A slot in the gun frame that hold the bobbed end of the ejector arm. Then all that's needed is to fix the LHS shroud securly to the arm, and the RHS to the gunframe ensuring the Cylinder drum can rotate freely when closed, so that each trigger pull advances the chamber to allow the gun to fire the PFC blank. A hobbyist looking at a display model doesn't need to be that accurate or to machine or engineer the cylinder drum that much , all it has to do is revolve freely when closed with the dummby bullets loaded and open when the catch release is pressed.