Hero Blaster Questions

[andy]

Well, you didn't hijack the thread, I think you got it back on track actually . There are no pictures of the grips without the Amber covers off that I know of. There are some pictures where there is enough light going through the grips to get an idea of the shape of the grip frame. If you haven't already, make sure you download the photos from here...

http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=156&start=0

I know we had a similar discussion once before, but I was unable to find the thread with a quick search.

Andy

[propsjonnyb]

As there are no photographs of the original gun, I suggest checkingout Rich photo build albums, as that does show the handle and gun frame with out the amber grips in place ,if they aren't good enough then I would suggest getting hold of aset of Bulldog Schematics - if you check the schematics of the CA Bulldog , you'll see that the gun frame conections to the handle is a reverse 'L' shape , Rich currently uses a Bulldog Screw ( thicker at one end) for the top connector and a pin for the lower, strictly speaking the connector for the lower one, should be a screw too, Sidkt used four small flat headscrews top and bottom each side -what you want is a firm tight connection , I use a screw head fixative such as Loctite Blue to help and it also helps stop , the screw from 'threading' the hole, if it does happen ,use something like JB Weld or epoxy putty to fill , then just re-drill and re-tap the hole .

[SCOFFMAN]

[racprops]

First to answer the last question look here, about the grips being removed:

http://www.propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=2722

Second, I firmly beleive the gun was in a more raw steel state, as it rusted...

Those pictures shown are too dark lighten them up to see any detail in the shadows and Bingo you see the lighter Steyr Receiver as in the Worldcon Photos, it is not blued in them.

Compair the receiver to the Black side covers...


The Ammo housing and clip come in black plastic so all thet needed painting was the side covers and the grip frame.




Rich
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[racprops]

And I will add, as the Steyr Receiver is just eye candy and serves no real fuction, I suggest you either buy one of my models or the Tomenosuke Pros for the Other than Bulldog Parts you need.

And as I am now getting a run of real barrels made, I am also offering to build real guns for those that really want them under the conductions out lined here:

http://www.propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=2642&start=40

So if you really want a real shooter it can be done for under $2000.00

Rich
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[hauptmann]

[racprops]

OK.

Rich
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[propsjonnyb]

Gun manufacturers normally electroplate their guns to protect then along with gunbluing and/or parkerization , a final finish of a protective sealer is normally used , I would personally recommend Jade Oil., for several reasons - it is used by gunsmiths and its readily available to us hobbyists , the finished parts are immersed in a bath (ideal) or wiped over with a cotton swab , then removed and left to air dry, once finished the parts will be water resistant to a good degree , a wipe down with a lint free cloth should keep the parts in excellent condition and an occasional re application of jade oil ( on a cotton swab, used as a wipe over) will maintain the finish and provide good rust protection for years and years .

[racprops]

All well and good for real guns, but the prop gun is still not blued.

The pictures show that.

Rich
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[joberg]

It's possible that, just for the look, they removed the blueing of the Steyr. Maybe too dark or simply showing off the strange design and overall look of that science-fiction weapon was behind the decision...who knows? Many people had thought, for years after the film that the prop dept. had used a flare gun...now we know better

[andy]

The Steyr may not be completely blued, but it is still much darker than the "Raw" metals on the gun. In photos of people holding the gun without a close up flash, The Steyr reciever appears almost black (or Blued) compared to the butt plate, and the trigger guard, also especially the bolt. There has to be an amount of bluing still visible on the gun. It is no where near a "Raw" steel.

Andy

[racprops]

Well here is my take on it:

As the prop as first presented to the director was seemly still all black, these two pictures seem to show it still having its original bluing, ( I now need to correct that....)

These two pictures suggest that, or are just too dark…and it might have been a lot like Classic Star Trek, when they saw in the dailies, the gun may have shown so little detail, (like the black and white Phasers in season one of Trek) that they asked to fix it to show up more on camera, because for the all the filming, the real guns parts, the Steyr and Bulldog show raw steel, their bluing was removed, making the metal lighter and brighter.


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[hauptmann]

[racprops]

I use pewter black to darken the silver looking pewter to that of raw steel.

And I get a highlighted lettering as the black tends to stay in the low lettering, note that on the real prop this did not happen.

I think they chemically cleaned the bluing off and it reached down into the stamping and lettering.

Rich
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[racprops]

OK Here are some pictures, consider that these pictures were lighted for the scene or for the over all shot.






When photographed with a person you get a darker looking receiver.



Rich
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[racprops]

I feel that is was lighter, dull steel finished, stripped of the bluing.

The Bulldog was either stainless, parerlised, or stripped as well.

I really think I am running as close to on screen as possable.

Rich
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[propsjonnyb]

I tend to side with Hauptmann a little , when refering to 'original' finishes on metal, a gunsmith will blue or parkerize individual parts not a complete assembled gun , so each part - barrel, upper reciever, bolt end caps, gunframe, drum, etc would have been processed separately and each part would darken in the chemical bath according to it's own alloy mix , this is why there are shading differences on 'real' guns as well as replica's ,anyone who is proficent in surface coating metal will try to match by eye where possible , but you cannot guarantee a 100%match it's just not possible, but it does mean you can clean and retreat parts several times to get a close match and can 'lighten' parts as well , again that's what I strive to do when I parkerize parts and when I get real steel parts eg barrels I gun blue them properly.

It takes me nearly three months to process a kit of raw parts into finished pieces , that I can then assemble in to a finished blaster replica
most of the time goes into treating the pewter - polishing , plating and parkerizing just to get them just right , but each and every time I build one , each is slightly different that it's brother in terms of final colouration , I can never turn out two absolutely identical ones , I doubt even Rich can , but we can get really close !!!

I think the hero gun was polished back at some point, exactly when it's difficult to say , it was gun blued or parkerized, I think that's a given backed by photographic evidence , but any metal treated with a chemical surficant ( gun blue , parkerization to darked it with an oxide coating - which is after all protecting the gun from rusting), if polished with an abrazive metal polish, it will 'lighten' and the more you polish the more you'll get back to the steel finish and the 'brighter' the effect, the trick is not to remove all of the coating, as that exposes the part to rusting . This is what I do with my builds in most cases , unless the client asks for something different, but I always treat the metal to a final coat of sealer - normally jade oil as this works as a good rust preventer making the metal water resistant and gives the gun that particular gunsmith finish, which with care - an acasional wipe over with a lint free cloth and an sealer oil touch up every now and then - will keep the gun in pristeen condition.

[Noeland]

I'm kind of curious which photos make you think the hero was parkerized. Or do you mean the original bulldog before modification? Again, what photos are you referring to?
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[joberg]

Well, the weapon specialist on the set new a few things:
1) There's only one hero gun.
2) The gun is going to be photographed in the rain (certain shots only, and the famous of them all: dropped on the floor into the water )

Conclusion: I'd better take great care of this prop 'cause if I f**ck it, Ridley is going to kill me and then have me fired

My slant on the story: it seems, and I could be wrong, that Rich is onto something, that the Steyr was of another tint of steel (just oiled and rubbed at the end of every take) or something else.
As I said before, it looks better on film with that "two-tone" scheme than to have a big black blob of a gun.

[racprops]

If you know film, and how they can change it from day to night, check out the Zora chase, the gun and most of the set turned olive drab, I am told that is what happens when they darken a day shot to go for a twilight or night shot with the film changing color like that.

Sadly with all the dark and moody lighting the gun ended up nearly just a black something in someone’s hand…

Still take the prop as we know it and shoot it with the same kind of lighting, take one of my models and I think we will get the same look.

Rich
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