Hero Blaster Questions

[jameth]

Are there any good pics of the Hero blaster at the time of filming?????


Any info on the finish originally used on the Hero blaster????


Was the upper receiver painted or chemically finished with something like pewter black???


Can the pewter black dye be made to look darker???


Thanks

[propsjonnyb]

There are a number of good photos of the hero - the 'Profiles in History' site has a set from production and from the auction for comparisons, and there are a proliferation of shots on this site alone, from material gathered from a variety of sources, it is safe to assume that the gunsmith who made it, finished it as per a real gun, by that I mean the CA Bulldog and the Styer upper reciever , ( essentially all the metal parts ) were gun metal blued or 'parkerized' that the ammo box was sprayed black and the gun weathered seems to have been done by the prop dept , since the CA Bulldog and Styer receiver were steel - 'Blueing' was done to fix and protect the metal, just as on a real manufactured gun.

'Pewter Black', is not a dye, it chemically oxidises pewter - pewter naturally oxidises on exposure to air - so all the chemical does is acellerate that process. You cannot 'darken' the colour and the colours it goes through during oxidisation , are totally dependant on the metal alloy content .
Since Sidkits and Coyles are two different Pewter Alloy mixes , they go different colours because of that mix - Sidkits , certainly the 2008 versions, can be 'blued' using commercial gun blueing agents sometimes but not every time , Coyles are different, after Tin, Copper has the highest % so the copper reacts with the 'Pewter Black' chemicals and goes through deepening shades of brown to almost black , you can lighten all most all metal treatments but you cannot darken them , simply suggesting leaving the item in a bath of 'Pewter Black' longer than the recommended time, will not get you a darker piece, as the chemical will actually begin to eat into the surface and will actually damage it and just to clarify a point - you cannot "Blue" or "Parkerize" Pewter directly.

I am personally electroplating my builds, because I can reproduce chemically a 'parkerized or blued' surface on plated pewter , it is my own developed metal treatment process , you can have your Sidkit or Coyle plated commercially and some plating companies offer metal treatments that will look 'parkerized or blued', but it will be costly because they will have to plate your Blaster twice , once with a base of copper and once with a plate they can subsequently 'treat'

The only way to get a Sidkit or Coyle to look like the original hero gun
is to replace the pewter parts with CNC machined steel one's and use one of the many commercial gun blueing agent's or have them 'parkerized'- that's it !!

I know many on here can and do use many alternative techniques mostly model painting and weathering and can produce a very acceptable looking Blaster and in some cases exceptional reproductions Starr , Beastmaster, Marsattacks and I could go on naming names , but in most cases - they are display pieces as handling them would damage or start to effect the finish.

[Staar]

I agree with propsjonnyb totally..

Possibly the most perfect shots (re your question) are from this series taken at the time of BR production. I'm sure you've seen them but here they are again:





Regards

MARK
_________________

[jameth]

Okay I found these after I posted the question but I wanted confirmation that this is in fact the real Hero prop as they put it "On the day it was delivered to set".

So it is confirmed these are legit pics???

Thanks

[jameth]

Thanks propsjonnyb. That explains a lot. One last pewter black question. After treating it with the pewter black will it continue to darken or is the pewter black result the darkest it will ever be????

Can the pewter be painted after it's treated with the pewter black???

I thinking of using pewter black but then if I don't like it going ahead and painting the "blued" parts gun metal grey. I just think it would look really good with the "Blued" parts a nice gun metal grey.

Thanks again

[Staar]

[propsjonnyb]

Ok to answer your question - the pewter will continue to oxidise untreated as it will darken naturally exposed to air, but it will take a long time, I'm talking years here at least two, before you notice any appreciable difference . Unless it's treated with a sealer, any metal sealer will 'fix' the colouration at the point it's sealed , if you polish it with any abrasive metal polish you risk lightening the finish and inadvertenly removing the protective sealer , if you do use 'Pewter Black' I would recommend using Jade oil as a sealer and regularly clean it every month with a a soft lint free cloth and a little wipe over with more jade oil, the oil takes about 24 hours to dry properly and will leave a protective film over the metal , so try not to handle it during that time - that should keep it in pristine order . If you use a clear lacquer seal then a wipe with a damp lint free cloth is all that is needed.

You can of course paint over the 'pewter black' finish as it's only a surface treatment after all, if you do decide to paint it - I would recommend using Testors or Humbrol Gun Metal Metalcote if you can get it , which will give you a more metallic finish , especially the Humbrol product as it dries to a cloudy finish, that you polish off to a proper metal shine, I would also recommend sealing the paint finish with a clear lacquer after you've polished it and use a polyurathane clear lacquer to give it a bit of protection.

[eltee]

The people I work with on prop guns have the expertise and the computer controlled machinery to reproduce the upper in aluminum or steel. We can 3D model either a real Steyr or one of the reproductions. The one issue I haven't solved is how to accurately reproduce the serial number and the cartouches in metal that is much hard than pewter based alloys. Custom numbers and proof stamps can be made that are strong enough to mark steel, but they are very expensive. The marks and numbers are too small to mill into the steel, even with a computer controlled machine.

If anyone can think of a way to reproduce the marks in steel, this might have a chance. I've already spoken to Rich about using his receiver as a model. Anyone know if laser etching would be applicable?

Anyway, I may do a receiver as an experiment. Will post pics if I do.

[andy]

That is great news Eltee. The only other idea I can think of for the engraving would be to take it to a jeweler, but that would be very expensive and likely not 100% accurate. I wonder if a chemical process of photo acid etching is also a possibility?

Andy

[hauptmann]

It's interesting that the green LED's aren't lit in those pics, though the red ones on the sides are. Hmmm.

[propsjonnyb]

Laser etching or computer controlled engraving , might be the best way to etch steel. The symbols are too small to chemically etch , I know I've tried - all ways. Steel would require high pressure dies and would be costly . They could be cast though with low melt steel to a satisfactory level using silicon moulds and would be the next logical step, you could also use Zamtec ( zinc alloy) or aluminium ( lighter ) I have experience in casting all , but like everything else , the master to make the main mold has to be perfect .

[eltee]

We have access to "perfect" models which we can laser 3d scan. We can use a real Steyr, a soft metal replica, or a plastic "master" from Rich. My goal is solid steel or moderately hard (T6, etc.) aluminum. I prefer steel as it will polish and blue like a real rifle.

I don't know anything about the limitations of laser engraving. If anyone has info, please let me know. Just want an accurate rendition of the actual markings in the steel.

While a real Steyr upper is available, it might not fit on the Coyle / Sidkit replicas without modification. I know the bolt was either reconfigured or, as some claim, replaced. So if I reproduce a real Steyr upper, the replica bolt may not fit. If I reproduce a bolt that fits, it is another item that has to be machined.

As soon as I get the first sample receiver we'll see how well it reads in the scanner. The machinist will see if the RHINO programming will create a good CNC milling program. Time will tell.

[phase pistol]

Enhanced for your enjoyment.

[propsjonnyb]

Since Rich copied a real Styer upper reciever for his master ,if you matched and machined to the internal dimensions of his master - his bolt would fit your replacement, ditto - if you did the same to a real Styer , the bolt would be an absolute perfect fit!

I really wish you well with the project and from a personal point of view, I'd go with steel, as with aluminium you have an oxidising problem - which make 'blueing' difficult again and you're back to plating to get to a surface to 'treat'

[joberg]

Interesting development Eltee...looking forward to the new project and its result.

[jameth]

Propsjonnyb,
You mentioned after painting it with Humbrol to "polish" it. Then clear coat seal it. After painting it with the gunmetal what do you meen by "Polishing" it???? What would you use to polish it with?????

Thanks

[propsjonnyb]

Sorry Jameth, should have said the Humbrol dries to a cloudy finish , you polish the paint itself, with a lint free dry cloth to buff up the final metallic finish - then seal it with clear lacquer.

[jameth]

Sounds good. Thanks

[jameth]

Now I'm feeling stupid. I don't feel like I've been doing this stuff my whole life but feel like a newbie.

Anywho I have another question. I going to go ahead and paint my blaster with testors gun metal. I really like how it came out on my Vader Reveal. The humbrol seems to be only in the UK.

For the clear coat I am only finding gloss, satin, or flat. On Vader of course it was gloss. I want Satin for the black parts on the blaster.

I would really love just a clear so what ever the paint finish is it stays.

If I can't find that which would gun metal look better in. Dullcoat or Satin???

I don't want to mess up the buffed metal look prosjohnnyb was talking about

[Combaticus]

Not to highjack the thread, but I do have a question. Looking at the top of the grip (through the clear grip panel), it looks as if there's nothing above the Bulldog grip frame. Is that the case, or does the "outer" grip frame just stop somewhere in front of the screws? I know there was discussion about a "void space" at the top of the grip.

Are there any pictures of the Hero without the grip panels?